| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 53 post(s) |
Kel hound
Lycosa Syndicate
Surely You're Joking
37
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Posted - 2013.05.29 16:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:For the people saying the 'loot pinata sucks' and the like could you vocalise the problems you have with it?
So far I've collated:
- It's not the way EVE has previously worked.
- Collision is a pain, both with the size of the Data Sites and the positioning of some containers.
- Picking can be difficult if you're not using a mouse.
- Picking can be difficult if you're blinded by the site contents.
- Loot haul seems low in comparison with how it was before.
- Losing cans feels bad, particular after the effort of having to hack the container. This makes it feel like a penalty.
- Not knowing what is any particular can so it feels bad not being able to make good choices.
- The 'bad loot' is far too bulky so it is excessively penalising as you have to stop and sort it out.
FEw extra things I'd like to add to that list, especially if you're set on keeping this stupid loot ejection system.
- Loot ejection is random. I've had cases where after a successful hack the loot has spewed into the structure I was hacking, causing most of the loot to be lost as my ship bounces helplessly off the structure. The general cluttered nature of anoms doesn't help much either. See quote below for an example.
mynnna wrote:http://i.imgur.com/FhZOW4A.png Picture to illustrate what I mean.
-When attempting to tractor in the mini-cans its very difficult to know when your ship is ready to tractor in a new can and if your too eager (because why wouldn't you be, your hard earned loot is about to despawn) to click a new can the system seems to "lock up" for want of a better phrase and won't do anything for a few precious seconds.
CCP Prime wrote:
1) No. By design a one player is never meant to be able to catch all cans. Hence the constant take time and the expiring of stuff.
2) They still will not show on the overview. We want players to actually use our space view. It is a challenge in 3D based decision making and for CCP it is a challenge to improve whatever needs improving when you have to deal with things directly in space.
1) Thats fine, look if you want to give us a limited time to access these cans, so be it. But the loot ejection system is punishment. It is a punishment mechanic. A better way would be on a successful hack to instead give the same system only in a loot window. None of this "chase it down!" bullshit. A simple, standard loot window where we can only pull one "mini-can" at a time and have a limited amount of time to do it before it locks permanently; but with the reward of not having to madly rotate the camera (while trying to avoid the visual clutter that lags frame rate) madly trying to pick out cans.
2) That would be fine - if the space view was intuitive to navigate. It's not. There is a reason we still have an 8 year old overview - its the best system for navigating EVE you've yet given us. Suddenly expecting us to be master of clicking on things in 3D space when for years you've taught us to use the overview is pants on head STUPID. |
Kel hound
Lycosa Syndicate
Surely You're Joking
38
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 06:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
mynnna wrote:"It's always been this way, so it always should be that way" makes things pretty boring.
Also, every single one of the ways you suggested to make it "multiplayer" just makes it "multi-account". Any of them could be multiboxed. The unique thing about the spray is that multiboxing it and being better off than having a genuine second person would be rather difficult. That's a good thing, because cooperation isn't cooperation when it involves your alts.
To be fair, there are reasons why "it has always been this way" and there are reasons why "it should always be this way". For one thing, the overview is the single most efficient way to navigate EVE's 3D space than CCP has ever given us. Any frigate/interceptor pilot can tell you that precision navigation in EVE is hard. While this is not necessarily a bad thing when it comes to ship-to-ship combat, it makes for an atrocious "reward" mechanic.
Yes, having a system that discourages multiboxing is a good thing, but this loot bukaki is a cure worse than the disease. Why can't we have the same fast loot mechanic in a floating can, using the inventory window? A limited time to pick up vague mini-cans containing our loot, but without the frustration of having to click on tiny little cans flying off into space? |
Kel hound
Lycosa Syndicate
Surely You're Joking
41
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 12:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:...
Prime is currently making some changes so the stuff is scattered in a more sensible manner so that it limits the bad cases where you are screwed over by collision issues. He has also tweaked the lifecycle calculation so that it works better.
...
One way you could do this is to have the spread pattern always eject towards the hackers ship. This would at the very least allow the hacker to account for LCO's in the site by positioning themselves accordingly. |
Kel hound
Lycosa Syndicate
Surely You're Joking
41
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 12:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:The first objection is untrue as there is lots of clicking in EVE, often that requires accuracy and speed. True, less of it is in the space scene. The second point is valid as this rapid decay of cans hasn't happened before but that is not to say that it shouldn't happen for that reason.
Speed and accuracy yes, however EVE very rarely required BOTH at the same time and almost never when floating in space. There's a good reason for that too, navigating EVE's 3D space and using it to target things is very hard. There is a reason you do not expect us to use the camera controls and clicking in fleet fights or other forms of PVP. There is a reason you gave us the overview to work with.
Thus far, all the problems and complaints Solkara Starlock gave you could probably be solved by letting us use the overview to chase down the mini-cans. I do not understand why you are so dead-set on forcing us to use the camera controls to manually click down each tiny can after a hack. |
Kel hound
Lycosa Syndicate
Surely You're Joking
41
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 22:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Naren Vintas wrote: because even if they fail the hacking, they can still get some of the loot (which is punishment enough) in other words: "CCP should reward us for failure. The punishment will be in knowing that we did not get all the shiny." Is this really what EVE players have become? Everyone should get a medal for trying?!
A better mechanic would be to keep the self destruct on double fail but use the loot spew if the hacker managed to actually find, but was for whatever reason unable to defeat, the system core. That has happened to me often enough that I can realistically see it getting used often enough to warrant the edge case. Remove the ability to cargo scan the cans (I don't really get why this is even a thing) and allow players to simply loot the can like a normal can on a successful hack.
This would allow for the focus to be placed on the hacking rather than the looting. The system core could be buffed in higher end data and relic sites to make it feel more like an end boss, and the hack to find it more intense as a result.
Zircon Dasher wrote:I for one am now quite content with the can spew mechanic and the mini-game. I especially like the fact that you have maintained solo payouts while simultaneously opening the door for non-zero sum cooperative play. If there was one thing I would change it would be to maintain "failure" spawns in the higher end Null sites. This is really a matter of taste though and is not necessary.
Next fanfest I owe you all beers.
I don't think anyone in either of the threads giving feedback to this feature has had a strong dislike for the hacking minigame. The complaints stem almost exclusively from the loot distribution mechanic.
Perhaps the loot spew would have worked with hacking or archo just another type of salvage module that you sat and watched cycle. In that instance it actually makes sense since the effort to acquire the loot be in clicking on those bloody cans and not on the actual hack. But having to not only navigate through the hacking mini-game, but then also have to bob for loot like a goldfish is a 1-2 punch.
Sincerely though, I'm glad someone is having fun with this feature because I sure as hell am not. |
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